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| /Polling results |
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| Opinion Polling ( 30 May 2009 ) |
What is the best single-engine fighter with the DB.601 engine?
Results: 1200
Bf.109
41.8% (502)
MC.202
27.2% (326)
Ki-61
21.5% (258)
Re.2001
9.5% (114)
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 Add comment
 Kollegi!
Ne nado sravnivut' uj s pal'tsem. Ne nado sravnivat' P-51 i Ki-61. Nevnimatel'nym napomnyu, chto v oprose Mustang ne prisutstvuet. Ki-61 byl otlichnoj mashinoj, dlya 43-44 gg. IMKHO on byl luchshim iz semejstva mashin na baze 601-go dvizhka.
"Nesmotrya na mnogochislennye bolezni litsenzionnogo dvigatelya i podavlyayushchee kolichestvennoe priemushchestvo aviatsii soyuznikov, samolety Ki-61 v period s 1943-1944 gg. okazalis' samymi boesposobnymi i ehffektivnymi istrebitelyami na tikhookeanskom TVD. Vplot' do kontsa 1944 g. soyuznikam nechego bylo protivopostavit' yarostnym atakam nashikh samuraev. Tol'ko beschelovechnye bombardirovki gorodov i zavodov, razrushivshie proizvodstvo, spasli aviatsiyu soyuznikov ot polnogo razgroma. K dekabryu 1944 g. na schetu istrebitelej Ki-61 chislilos' okolo 2300 sbitykh vrazheskikh mashin, pri sobstvennykh boevykh poteryakh v 350 istrebitleej."
*perevod s yaponskogo moj.
istochnik: "Tanimura, Masami, Nakano, Yoshiharu and Kawasaki, Saburo. Kawasaki Ki-61 (Tony). Blaine, WA: Paul Gaudette, Publisher, 1967."
[Leonid, 30.06.2009 09:56]
Damned!
Ki-61 is the best! whatehell??
[Morra, 29.06.2009 23:21]
«Oshibaetes', Sergej. Ki-61 ne mogli protivostoyat' novejshim samoletam USAAF»
Primerno tak zhe bezapellyatsionno vyglyadit vashe zayavlenie. TSifry, fakty pozhalujsta ili ssylki. Nachav postupat' na vooruzhenie v 1943, i k momentu, kogda s yapontsami stali srazhat'sya imenno ne flotskie, a armejskie VVS, ehtot samolet, kak i ego brat'ya, ustupal po vsem parametram osnovnym samoletam soyuznikov. Prichem nagolovu.
K tomu zhe vse semejstvo ehtikh dvigatelej bylo maloprigodnym dlya vysotnykh dejstvij. CHem srazu vospol'zovalis' Mustangi. Ili vy ehto o Ki-61-II? O da, 374 mashiny s yaponskim nenadezhnym dvizhkom Ha-140 ehto moshch'! Esli ehto byl edinstvennyj bolee menee podkhodyashchij yaponskij samolet, to ehto ne oznachaet, chto on luchshij.
[Vasilij Bat'kovich, 15.06.2009 18:05]
Oshibaetes', Vasilij. Ki-61 protivostoyali samym novejshim samoletam USAAF, a ne drovam sovetskogo proizvodstva. Uspeshno protivostoyali.
[Sergej, 15.06.2009 00:37]
Kakoj-to bespredmetnyj razgovor vykhodit. Dejstvitel'no nekotorym nechego dobavit' krome glupykh sravnenij so struchkami i mechami. A ya vot ne polenilsya posmotret' v spravochnik i vizhu tam prakticheski odinakovye dannye. Nu nevdomek chto li, chto dvigatel' sut' samoleta, pod nego sozdany samolety odinakovykh vesovykh kategorij. Sravnenie ne opravdano. Net kharakteristik, kotorye mogli by ikh voobshche razlichit', a poshlosti o nemetskom kachestve, yaponskom nekachestve tekh let i vsegdashnem nekachestve u ital'yantsev tozhe net smysla povtoryat'. Pravda i v tom, chto ehti samolety ustareli i mogli ehffektivno protivostoyat' lish' samoletam svoego pokoleniya (preimushchestvenno sovetskim).
[Vasilij Bat'kovich, 14.06.2009 17:06]
Zabyli upomyanut', chto DB601 stavili na Spitfajr i s nim on pokazal neveroyatnye rezul'taty!
[Mikhalych, 09.06.2009 22:45]
Mess luchshij odnoznachno. Esli vy ehto stavite pod somnenie, to s vami dazhe bessmyslenno ehto obsuzhdat'.
[Nubler, 08.06.2009 21:15]
Kak zhelezo Makki byli luchshimi, prosto ital'yashki voevat' ne umeli.
[Semenov, 08.06.2009 08:31]
My dear not Israeli friend,
The sword is the better weapon that stick, right?
Ki-61 is the better weapon than Bf.109. I have nothing to add yet.
[Sergei, 05.06.2009 12:57]
No, no, Sergei. I didn’t want to call you an anti-Semite or something else. I was just curious why you’ve asked about the country in the paragraph for comments. =)
I repeat my main idea, the definition “the best” is not correct as to my mind. And the very first reason of its incorrectness is the same engine as a main feature that determines the rest of characteristics. In general those planes were equal.
So best wishes to you too. =)
P.S.: Never thought that this surname is spread. Funny, isn’t it? =)
[Bernardov, 05.06.2009 01:35]
>>And if we speak about swords and sticks then 35 000 “sticks” would beat up 3 000 “swords”
You are real joker. Why you wrote 35000 vs 3000, why not 300000000000 vs 5 ??... Ha-ha. Bravo!
The question was : "What is the best figther with DB601?" Not "What is the best 35000 fighters vs 3000". Right?
ps: I'm ask your country just because I have the good friend (aviation fan) with the same surname in Israel. No any anti-Semitism, my friend. 
[Sergei, 04.06.2009 20:23]
Forumnaya bolezn' shagaet po strane. Vsem khochetsya pogovorit' drug s drugom i drug o druge, gde polozheno i ne polozheno. Fu
A ya vot chital v tolstoj knizhitse, chto Makki byl ochen' khorosh i za nego moj golos.
A vot zamechanie o tom, chto vse reshaet umeloe ispol'zovanie tekhniki i rezul'tat ee ispol'zovaniya, ves'ma pravil'no.
[Pavel Ivanovich, 04.06.2009 18:41]
Nu pryam odesskij razgovor
- Vy evrej?!
- Da, i ch'to?
- Tada voprosov netu…
Vse ehti samolety okazalis' fuflom v ravnoj stepeni. I sbivali ikh okhotno mustangi, tanderbolty, pozdnie spitfajry i prochaya kharikejnovskaya nechest'.
[Lyokha, 04.06.2009 15:55]
Is the last question an argument? =))) No. Fulfilled? =)))
The last your comment is especially incorrect and it is the trial simply to out-argue me. I think such approach isn’t serious. You’ve compared absolutely unconnected planes of different generations and conceptions. The poll is about planes primordially of one specification. I repeat, don’t substitute the notions. Actually none of this list was up to date at the end of war.
And if we speak about swords and sticks then 35 000 “sticks” would beat up 3 000 “swords” as well as 8 500 Corsairs and 12 000 Hellcats would too.
[Bernardov, 04.06.2009 14:22]
Dear mr.Bernardov,
Okey, any weapon good in the ace's hands. However some weapon are good and well done, some poor and bad design. The beginner with sharp sword will kill well trained veteran with wooden stick. The history showed it many time. Very good Russian veterans of Spain Civil War and Chinese War were easely shot down by German novics on the Bf109 which was much more powerful then outdated Iskak I-16s in the beggining of the war on the east front. Also Japanese NAvy aces flown outdated Zeros were easily killed by Americans on modern Hellcats and Corsairs (even piloted by green novics) during the 2nd half of war in Pacifc.
In case of db601 sword is Ki-61, stick is Bf.109. It is my opinon
best wishes
ps: Where are you from? Israel?
[Sergei, 04.06.2009 09:58]
Dear Sergei,
The talk is not about soviets. As well as it’s not about allies too though they took not less important part. Don’t substitute the notions. I meant certainly that in the sense of military efficiency the quantity with the adequate quality are the main factors. In the sense of engineering I’ve underlined that Bf.109 was neither the best nor worst. And I repeat my main idea, the formulation “the best” is not correct.
[Bernardov, 04.06.2009 04:15]
Dear Sir!
Okey, Let's add Yak-3 to this list. It was the best fighter with[+out] DB601 engine, right?.. )))) Ha-ha-ha-ah!!
Soviet pilots won not due to good aircraft, but due to many-many victims. Do you know ancient Russian wisdom "Shapkami zakidali" (bombarded with hats)? They flew wooden troughs, all Migs, Yaks, La, etc, were quite poor quality and handmade fighters. The first after WW2 war (Chinese Civil, Korea, Middle East, etc) clearly show this fact... No one Soviet fighter still in service after several years after ww2. But many british and us aircraft flew until even end of 70! survived first.
Jet MiG-15, became the first realy worthy Soviet figher...
good wishes
[Sergei, 03.06.2009 08:17]
This poll is just more one example of “what the best”- question’s incorrectness. The saying goes the best weapon is the weapon in your arms. Almost all planes of the list are better than Bf.109 but at war it was the best as the most numerous and piloted by the best aces. And finally always the best is a winner: first of all the soviet ones, again and again named very disrespectfully as “flying woods” by soviets themselves.
[Bernardov, 02.06.2009 23:31]
EHto bred. Pochemu tak mnogo lyudej golosuet za Messer?! Potomu chto on mnogo voeval? Tak ehto ne pokazatel' kachestva! Ki-61 byl odnoznachno luchshim perekhvatchikom-vysotnikom i v dogfajte s amerikanskimii itrebitelyami tozhe vsegda vykhodil pobeditelem. A Messer mog bit' razve chto derevyannye koryta VVS RKKA.
[Sergej, 02.06.2009 08:12]
Me109 is the best. They shot down much more a/c then anybody else... Just look at the German aces list!
[Me109, 01.06.2009 22:59]
Messer konechno mashina na vse vremena, i modifikatsiya F s 601 dvizhekom, dejstvitel'no byla samoj luchshej iz sem'i 109-kh... No esli otsenivat' ob'ektivno iz predstavlennykh mashin samym uspeshnym byl yaponskij Ki-61 - on edinstvennyj smog real'no borot'sya kak s mnogomottornymi boingami, tak i s sukhoputnymi i morskimi istrebitelyami amerikentstsev. I ehto bylo v to vremya, kogda meser uzhe okonchatel'no izzhil resur modernizatsii i ustarel. V obshchem Ki-61 - 5 balov!
[Andrej Ivanovich, 01.06.2009 19:02]
Italian fighters the best!
[Tommi, 01.06.2009 14:53]
IMKHO Ki-61 luchshij. Messer sebya izzhil k 42 g. A ital'yashki - ehto voobshche drova letayushchie.
[Petr, 01.06.2009 11:17] |
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